The Biggest Challenges Facing Veterinary Practice Owners Today — Are You Keeping Up or Falling Behind?

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Veterinary Business Institute's Summit Series. We are thrilled to have you here for a conversation that sits right at the heart of modern veterinary practice ownership, not just how you keep up, but how to truly get ahead. I'm your host, Dan Adisa, and this is going to be a fantastic two-hour session. Veterinary medicine is evolving faster than ever. Between shifting client expectations, rising operational co- costs, staffing challenges, regulatory pressures, and the emotional weight of the work, owning a practice today requires more than clinical excellence. It requires clarity, resilience, as well as strategy. So tonight, we are going to unpack all of that with six...

And this essential conversation is made possible by our wonderful sponsor, EquiMarketing. In today's digital world, building a practice that truly connects with your community and drives growth requires a clear strategic marketing plan. EquiMarketing specializes in helping veterinary practices do exactly just that. And they've got a special thank you for you later that you wouldn't want to miss. So the conversation we're having tonight doesn't have to end within the summit. It continues every week on the Veterinary Business Podcast. Our mission is simple, to bring you actionable business insights from industry leaders to bridge the gap between medicine and management. New episode drops every Thursday. Just search for Veterinary Business Podcast wherever you listen, and be sure to subscribe.

Now, before we walk through, tonight's agenda, I want to share a quick update. Mark Shannon, who was, scheduled to speak on identifying hidden costs and recovering profit had a family emergency and won't be able to join us this evening. We're keeping him in our thoughts and, we'll make sure that th- his key insights are shared with you in the follow-up resources after the event. With that being said, we still have an incredibly rich lineup tonight. So let's take a look at what's ahead. All right, everyone. We'll be beginning with Dr. Christine Staten, who will te- help us tackle something every practice owner feels deeply, how to build a sustainable practice without sacrificing your life outside the clinic.

Dr. Staten sets the perfect foundation, because sustainability isn't just personal. It determines the stability of your entire... And from around, we are going to shift into the marketing session with Lester D. Alvis, who's going to unpack how independent practices can attract more clients without spending more. Clients today make decisions differently, and Lester will show you the marketing priorities that actually move the needle right now. Then, we are going to zoom into the human side of veterinary medicine with Leah Paris. She'll walk us through how compassionate leadership builds stronger teams and healthier practices. If you feel the strain of turnover, morale dip, or burnout, this segment is going to speak directly to you. Then we move into the legal and strategic realm with Mary Monjoy, who will guide us through DEA compliance, practice acquisitions, and strategic partnerships.

This is an area where so many practices feel unsure, and Mary brings a level of clarity and calm that makes these complex topics feel manageable. And we'll round out that speaker lineup with Rhonda Meyer, who will show us how to leverage data and strategic partnerships for growth and expansion. If you've been thinking about a second location, optimizing performance, or staying competitive in your own market, this segment will give you the tools and confidence to think strategically. Finally, we'll close with an open Q&A. This is your chance to bring forward your own challenges, scenarios, and questions so our panel can support you directly. So what you're seeing here is a full spectrum view of the challenges and opportunities facing veterinary practices today, from s- sustainability and marketing to leadership, profit, to compliance, strategy, and growth.

So wherever you are in your journey, there's some guide that will meet you right there where you're at. Now, with that being said, before we dive in, let's get the chat warmed up, and let's do get... Let's get to know you, our dear audience members. Tell us two things. Find the chat box below and tell us two things. Where are you joining in from, and what's one word that describes how you're feeling about the future in your practice? Drop it in the chat, and I'll read a few responses out loud. This way, we can get an u- understanding of who our attendees are, and, our panelists can tailor their answers a bit better towards them. Okay. We got Molly from Greenville.

Welcome, Molly. And we got Timothy from Newtown. Welcome, Timothy. Hannah from Canada.... Toronto economy. Okay. that's interesting. Mm-hmm. How nice feeling about the economy, with regards to their practice. We're definitely going to get into that, Hannah, so welcome. And we got, okay, Dr. Staten, from... Where are you from? Arizona. Tucson. Welcome, Doctor (laughs) Staten. I will welcome you, you know, officially in a moment. So, absolutely. Dr. Mohinder Bangar from Toronto, Canada. Welcome, Doc. So thank you so much, you know, everyone found that chat box really easily.... Oh, we got Jocelyn from Australia. Welcome, Jocelyn. Glad to have you here.

That's going to be interesting. So we, we have gone international. (laughs). And, yeah, definitely. So I've just sh- shown you how easy it is to find the chat box, and throughout this discussion... I- it is a discussion, so treat it as so. we are here live with you. it's not going to just be a recording. So feel free to ask your questions, you know. chime in your comments. Do you agree? Do you disagree with whatever one of the panelists says? put it into the chat box, and I will try my best to address all of those. If you want to a- have a specific question and answer answered, just use the Q&A section, because that'll help us, keep track a lot more easier if it's, you know, a specific question and answer.

So with that being said, thank you, everyone, for being here and engaging with the chat box right now. Now, with that being said, let's move into the first, session we got going on. How veterinary owners can build sustainable practices without sacrificing their lives? Now... Some leaders grow a practice. Others grow an entire ecosystem. Dr. Christine Staten began as a solo ambulatory veterinarian and transformed that humble beginning into a thriving, two-location, mixed animal center that now hosts over 30 students externs every year. Her turning point came when she realized that sustainability isn't something you stumble into. It's something you truly have to design.

After earning her MBA, she founded Veterinary MBA to help owners build practices that support their lives, not consume them. Tonight, she brings the clarity and compassion that only two decades of real-world ownership can provide. Dr. Staten, we are honored to learn from your journey tonight. Thank you so much. I,... When you did the other... I'm so ex-... When you did the other, introduction, I'm so excited to hear from everyone else. I'm gonna get through mine fast, so I can listen to all the, the exciting stuff coming up. Thank you for the invite. Wonderful. Wonderful. Glad to have you here, Doc. so with that being said, allow me to frame this conversation, why this conversation matters tonight, right? So across recent studies, veterinary medicine continues to show some of the highest burnout and emotional strain in healthcare, with researchers calling the profession inherently stressful and tying well-being directly to work-life balance and leadership behaviors. At the same time, economic reports show only modest real income growth for vets despite rising workloads and inflationary pressure on wages and s- supplies. So in other words, owners are being asked to do more with less, which makes sustainable business design and boundaries not a luxury, but a survival strategy.

So Dr. Staten, many practice owners struggle to maintain a work-life balance while trying to grow their business. What are the first practical steps an owner can take to build sustainability without getting burned out? Okay. Well, many people won't like my answer, but I think the first thing they need to do is not try to get work-life balance. And I know what they mean by it, but let me just explain my point, so I don't sound crazy. To me, balance sounds like some even scales of, "I spend work and life as very separate entities," and I don't think practice life is like that. I think there's a, integration that can be very fulfilling and very exciting and very wonderful, but when we try to separate it, and then it starts to cross over, then we panic, like, "Oh, my gosh, maybe we don't have balance in our lives." And so I think if we're striving for something that's not really attainable, and I think any human, n- doesn't matter if you're a practice owner or not, if you really try to route down, write down what balance looks like in your life, I feel like it would be really hard to, to actually tangibly write it down.

And I think tomorrow, it would be different than today. And my life has gone... My... I've owned the practice now for over 23 years, and there are times when I put more time and energy into my life, and more time and energy into my practice. My son had heart surgery. I was focusing a lot more energy on that. When I was doing my big remodel and building the practice, I was focusing a lot more energy and time there. So I think, first of all, letting go of the pressure of attaining something that's not exactly attainable is my first thought.But I get what people mean. They don't want their work to completely consume them so they have one life, is my assumption of what they're trying to go for there. And I think that you can do that, but as a practice owner, boundaries are a little bit different.

Boundaries are- Mm-hmm.... y- it's really hard to draw a line in the sand and say, "Do not contact me," when I'm in charge of the business and I'm trying to support my team. So I think... I don't have a lot of huge boundaries. What I've done is figured out what my core competencies are and outsourced a lot of the other things so that my time is focused on what, what I need to be doing for my practice, which then frees me up to have time physically outside the practice. Okay. Dr. Staten, how did you,... I mean, this is a very interesting perspective for sure. how did you figure out your core competencies? When did you know,... or how did you figure out what you need to delegate and what you need to keep in control?

well, I didn't do it right. I tried to do everything, and I think that's where a lot of practice owners struggle, is they try to do all the things and, i- if... I don't know if they're like me, but I also believed that I was the best one to do all the things and my way was the right way because it was my practice and, and I was gonna be there forever and they may or may not be there forever. And so that mentality shift is what's necessary and it's very hard. I work with (clears throat) a lot of practice owners on outsourcing and delegating, and it is, it is the biggest struggle to pass something off that's literally part of your baby that you've invested emotionally, financially, physically into that you know is also your legacy, and then you te- have somebody else do it.

I have no idea what's going on with my camera. It's just changing colors on us here. We're like in a little technicolor party. Oh, okay ... my world to make sure that they were onboarded to that role well. So that's one side. The other side is that you pass it off, you train them well, you get them going, and then you don't leave them alone. You keep bugging them. And I, I think, I don't think micromanaging is a bad word. I think if you own a business, you better dang well be checking in on people and making sure that everything's going well. But there's a point at which you need to just let them fly, and how they do it is less important than the goal.

So setting up, "This is the outcome that we desire," and then if you can get to that outcome a different way, I don't really care. Like, however you're gonna get there is fine. So I think those are the two extremes that we want to avoid. Just find some little happy place in the middle where we're passing those things off really well, where we're trusting those people, where we're picking the right people, and that might be externally, outside your practice. We have a tax strategist who's outside our practice. She does tax strategy. Her whole team does tax strategy for, for our practice. That keeps money in my practice. I- I'm not good at tax strategy. My regular CPA's not good at tax strategy, but this person helps me keep money in my business, so that's an easy one to pass off. But if I passed off...

Like, when I passed off inventory management, I had to really spend the time getting that person onboarded appropriately into their role, and actually, I passed it off to a manager who then passed it off to them, over the years. Okay. now, Dr. Stanton, over there, there was something very interesting, which is, you found out that, one of the, you know, times when passing off isn't done so great is when you're overwhelmed, right? - Yeah. During that situation, what, wha- i- if you could go back in time, what would be, you know, the ideal way you would go about handling that when you are in that o- o- overwhelmed state? Yeah, great question, 'cause I'm sure there's people that, that feel that way, and I've been in that exact s- time. I think, for me, I'm a time blocker. Like, my whole life is time blocked.

Everything has a little section where it's blocked. And so we have 168 hours every week. If we're working 50 and we're sleeping 50, we still got 68 hours. There's a time to do it, and it might be on a Saturday afternoon when you focus on them. You've got to block out a good chunk of time to get it done. You have to drop a day... If you're the veterinarian and the owner, you have to drop a day of patient care to get some good stuff done. That's hard for a revenue generator to do, to drop that. But the, the reality is it's so important to do it well that you have to. I really tell every practice owner they should have a full CEO date every week where they do a lot of different things related to that role, but one of those would be teaching and training.

Okay. fantastic. thank you very much, Dr. Stanton, for that, answer as well. Really appreciate it, because I wanted to get practical, you know, since a lot of the owners do feel that overwhelming state. Now, how can veterinary owners integrate mentorship, training, and team development into their day-to-day operations while still protecting their own time and energy? By empowering their team. Th- it's not, it's not all on them to do that. You want a team that says, "We don't do that here," to another team member. You want to create a culture where everyone feels like they have a voice. We have at ours. We have... Everyone has a handbook. We have to legally have that.

It's filled with legal stuff. But we also have behavioral expectations. We have "I" statements, two pages of "I" statements that, "If you're gonna work here, these are the behaviors that are expected," and they have to initial every single one before we hire them. And we have had people who have chosen not to work for us as a result of our behavioral expectations. But we uphold those, and everyone in the b- in the whole practice knows that we are consistent about upholding those, and they self-regulate, because we created them by saying, "What kind of practice do you want to work in?" My exact words were, to them were, "If you could love driving to work every single day and be excited to come here, what would it look like here?" And we created these behavioral standards as a group as a result of that discussion. And it has things like, "I will arrive for work on time, fed and ready to work." So, that's one of ours.

Fed became important because half the people prior to us having this would come in and go to the lounge and cook their breakfast, and the other half go to work. And nobody need- none of those individuals realized they were causing a little bit of animosity with each other. So, we decided that was one of our behavioral expectations. We uphold that. Nobody goes into the lounge and makes a bagel, and if they do, somebody's gonna call them out and remind them that we don't do that here. And it also makes it really easy for correction if I do have to get involved. And I say, myself, but I do now have a general manager. We have 53 team members at our place now, so I have a general manager and then I have a department manager, so they're really doing this, more than I am. But I can call somebody in and say, "Hey, can you read number seven?" And it might be what our gossip policy is, and I'll say, "So this morning, when you were talking to so-and-so in the treatment area, how do you feel like that fits into this?" And they immediately s- look at it and say, "You're absolutely right. That is not the culture that we want to be in." Like, their response to that is, "I am so sorry.

Thank you for calling me out on it." And it's a quick conversation that we just-... remind them that it's back in. But you have to be consistent, and the goal is to get them self d- doing it. Because they have to understand, if they want this culture, they have to work to keep this culture. So it can't all be on me. It can't even be on my managers to do that. I love that. You know, if they want this culture, they have to be in this culture. And the way you framed that question was also really appreciated, as well, because that, that allows them to think it, right? think from their perspective, "How did my actions align or misalign with the policies?" How important is that for you, the teams, perhaps, buy-in?

100%. They have to be engaged. Like I, I have full four-hour presentations on team engagement that I give because it's so important to me. We have really good data, not in vet med, but in business in general, on if you get an engaged team, what that does. And, and they have... One of the most important things, there are higher profit margins, lower turnover, less people, having, being sick and tardy. Those are just data points, but my, one of my favorites is, your team is physically and mentally and emotionally healthier. And this was h- a huge study that was done on engagement. So for me, I want my team engaged. Their voice matters in everything.

We don't have meetings where everyone sits facing the front and one person's talking. We have meetings where we're in a circle and we discuss stuff. We had one this morning. My techs, my doctors have the same voice, and we say, "Well, how do we want to do this?" There's no dumb ideas or dumb questions. We do w- for set- for strategic planning once a year, we do a 17-page survey that we send out to the whole team, and I do it on paper. I tried to do it digitally, but they don't write as much. On paper, they write all over it, they turn it over, they write on the back, and, and then we do what they say. They, they know the problems, they know the solutions, and you have to accept that their way might be a whole lot better than what I think it should do or how it should run.

So really letting them have a voice and listening to, to what they recommend and then following through with it. You really have to trust them, even if it, you think... A great example is, that we used, is... I'll give two examples, I'm not sure my timing here, quick, the, of opposites. Sure. One example, when I first opened, we had a receptionist team start, and they were in scrubs. And I decided, "I don't want them in scrubs." I wanted them in something different than the rest so that they looked different. People knew that they were different. So I went to Lands' End and I ordered, or I s- picked out the polo that I wanted them to wear that was gonna be embroidered, and I gave them the magazine, 'cause back then it was a magazine. (laughs) And I said, "Based on the sizing chart, tell me what size you want." And they gave back to me the catalog with a bunch of Post-it notes on ones that they would prefer.

This was the old me. I was mad. I was like, "-. My practice, we're doing this my way, and you pick the polo you want, and you give me the size. This isn't what I asked for." And that's literally how I handled it. And flash forward to four years ago, when in their satisfaction survey, many of them said, "We need new reception chairs." I handed them the credit card. I said, "I have two rules. They have to match, and every one of you has to agree. That's it. I don't care about price. I don't care about anything else." They spent weekends together hanging out, going, sitting in different chairs. They finally ordered some chairs that were about half of what I would have probably spent on chairs. When the chairs arrived, they built them because they were so excited. They're never gonna complain about those chairs because they picked them. But there's, that's kind of my example of the extremes of me doing it wrong and me doing it very well. There, they, I didn't, why should I care about what chairs they sit in just as much as why should I care exactly what they're wearing at the front desk?

Mm, mm, mm, mm. Thank... I mean, absolutely appreciate your experience-based answers, Dr. Staten, you know? That's really what matters. Yeah, and I think we are up for time, for this session. But, you know, if you, please stay on. I think we have some, you know, questions from the audience perhaps you may be able to answer, down the line. but yeah, of course- Sure, and I'll stay in the chat. If there's any questions, I can answer them directly in the chat. Absolutely. Thank you so much- Thank you.... Dr. Staten. Thank you- You're welcome.... for having me. Absolutely. so next up, oh, it seems that, one of our, support members have asked, "In one sentence, what's the biggest challenge your practice is facing right now from the attendees?" And we got Molly, replying, "Employee recruitment and retention." Okay, and then Amy has replied, "Attracting, training, and retaining high-quality professional team members." This is really interesting. So, some of our attendees here, you know, they're concerned about getting that high-quality team members in- inside and, of course, keeping them there when they do come in. So, I hope down the line, we can speak a little bit more in tuned to, what our attendees actually have in their thoughts to date.

Now, with that being said... Here go. Our next segment, attract more clients without spending more, the marketing priorities every independent practice needs.Every veterinary practice wants more of the right clients, but few truly understands the signals that their brand sends every day. Lester D. Alves has spent years helping healthcare professionals transform scattered marketing efforts into engines of predictable growth. With a blend of data, creativity, and strategic clarity, Lester believes your brand isn't something you design once, it's something your community experiences every day. Interesting. So tonight, he'll help us cut through the noise and understand what clients really respond to. Lester, thank you for helping us understand this new marketing landscape .

Thank you, Don, for having me. Is Yes, same here. Okay, wonderful. So just to frame this ques- conversation. Mm-hmm. Client behavior has shifted dramatically in the last few years. Surveys show nearly 70% of pet owners are now interested in telemedicine and remote care options. Mm-hmm. And regulators i- in multiple regions are updating laws to allow virtual VCPR relationships. At the same time, recent benchmarking data reveals that while practice revenue has grown, the average number of active clients per practice has actually been declining since 2019. So marketing is no longer about getting your name out there, it's about staying visible and relevant to a digitally empowered client base that has more choice, more information, and less patience than ever.

So... Yes. so thank you, Don. Lester, with, with- Yeah. yeah. So, Lester, (laughs) sorry to cut you off there. - No worries. So with so many rapid changes in client behavior and digital expectation, what is the biggest marketing challenge you see independent veterinary practices face right now? Yes. It's a great timing topic, I would say, and thank you, Don, for having me here again. And, I think it's, it's, it's an important place to start because honestly, the biggest marketing challenge for the veterinary practices today is that the client has changed faster than the industry has. So... and that's not criticism, it's a reflection of how dramatically digital expectations have shifted- Mm-hmm.

... in the last three to five, years. You see clients used to compare vet clinics to other vet clinics today, and they compare you to, like, Starbucks, Amazon, Uber Health, you know, their dentist and their therapist. So everything or every industry is training them to expect immediacy, transparency, and personalization. And when they don't get that from a clinic, they assume something is wrong. And if- even, even if your medicine is exceptional, that is where it all boils down to. So here's the real tension. We see veterinary owners are still trying to deliver excellent care as their differentiator, while we do see clients are now judging you before they will ever meet you.

So based on your website, your reviews, your social presence, and how easy it is to reach your clinic digitally, all these things matter. So, so the biggest challenge is, is that... the biggest challenge is that is you disconnect between how practices believe clients make decisions and how they actually do. So most owners still think that, "If I provide great care, people will actually show up." Well, that is true, for a certain ex- aspect, but there is also a po- point where the data st- says something else also, which is you also need to keep attention. That is, a client's journey now begins online as we speak. And long before the visit, their first impression happens in many key areas. One is your Google profile.

They go and search up on Google, your website load speed, your appointment booking experience, your social media tone, and your reviews, especially the... they will read your bad reviews as well. So... and, and increasingly, how your brand makes them feel. So you need to look at all these aspects, when it comes to, that... when it comes to the client's journey. And the practices that wins their trust in all these aspects is the one that communicates like a modern consumer-facing business, not a medical institution, but that assumes expertise speaks for itself, you know? So that's why in my work I rarely talk about marketing as advertising. I would say it's, it's storytelling.

I describe marketing as an experience of another story. So... because if your online experience doesn't match the emotional experience pet owners expect, they won't make it to the stage where your clinical, excellence can matter. So that's the biggest challenge we have, the perception gap. Practices underestimate how much credibility they lose when that digital front door doesn't, reflect who they really are. Okay. That's a very interesting, aspect right there, Lester. I mean (clears throat), you completely, flipped the script on how to think about marketing, for me at least, you know. So that's very interesting. So you're not looking at it as advertising, but rather as...

not even educating, but rather as a part of their experience with the practice itself, so that's interesting. Thank you, Lester. if a practice owner wanted to strengthen their online presence, but could only focus on one to two core activities, you know, what would deliver the biggest and the fastest impact? Right. So that's, again, another good question. I think most owners get caught off guard because the industry had a long period where demand was naturally high and competition was naturally low. So, if you were a practice doing good medicine, you'd have to think strategically about brand perception, clients because you- because most clients come because you were the clinic in their community.

So today that landscape is completely different. most clients have more choices, and corporate groups have sophisticated marketing engines. Technology is changing the way the care is accessed. And younger pet demographic, there's this, there's this demographic called the younger pet owners which is ex- especially the millennials. They expect digital fluency as a baseline, so that needs to be there. So the underlying gr- the underlying reason practices struggle is that marketing used to be an optional, now it's foundational I would say. So most owners weren't trained to think this way. They were trained to diagnose and treat and build relationships in person, which is the right way to do of course, but not to communicate those trends online as a story or more storytelling. So meanwhile, clients are deciding within three seconds whether they trust the practice based on I would say few key areas. One is the tone, the clarity, aesthetic consistency, ease of booking, and the emotional, resonance of the brand.

So I would say if you look at all these aspects, practices simply aren't accustomed to translating these things. so if they do, that will actually bring in those values, and philosophy, and their philosophy into digital experience. So, so the real root cause is this, veterinary care is personal, digital decision-making is impersonal I would say. So, bridging that gap is re- it requires the intention to do it. Okay. Lester, why do you think so many clinics really underestimate that impact of consistency in online visibility? Like you said, with regards to having, I mean, you know, the branding, the tone, the aesthetic stuff, wh- why do you think clinics really underestimate these things?

I think they underestimate. there, there's so many things right in the digital realm. You get caught up with everything that's going on. There's so much of things going on now that you have AI as well. So it's hard to be con- it's hard to keep consistent. It's like everything comes on and you need to c- there's so many things as SEO, there is, there is your content, your duplicate content, you need to check on that. You need to make sure everything is done in a way that all these steps are checked on. So staying con- if you're not an expert and if you're not, if, if you don't have the time to look at all these checkboxes, then- Mm-hmm. ... staying consistent is basically is very overwhelming, - Mm-hmm.

... especially in the digital marketing space. Okay. now building off of that perhaps, many owners, you know, they do invest in marketing but still un- feel unsure whether it's actually working. So how can practice owners measure success in a meaningful and data-driven way? Yeah. So, I would say, I love this question again because it helps owners prioritize. The truth is digital marketing can feel overwhelming because there are a thousand tools like I said, platforms and tactics. But if you're talking about the biggest impact with least friction, especially for busy ve- busy veterinary owners, I always narrow it down to three foundational pillars. Pillar one would be Google, your modern storefront. So whether you like it or not, Google is your homepage. more clients will see your Google business profile so make sure it's always updated.

That means, what I mean by updated means it, it has to have the o- keep the working hours updated, post you had to keep, you had to be posting weekly updates on what's happening and real photos of your team, your culture in your practice, and also basically I would say reviews. You need to, get reviews, love letter reviews, respon- and responding to reviews professionally as well which is a very important thing most of us don't do. We tend to do get reviews but we miss to respond to the reviews. So I would say practices that actually manage these things, manage their profile see a direct increase in calls and vis- website visits. And it's, I th- I think that could be the simplest, simplest highest, impact move that you could do in terms if you take pillar one.

And then pillar two is the, your website clarity. and you n- you don't need to make your website a complex platform in you want to make sure s- people looking at it is basically understands what they actually go through. So a modern website would, should have emotionally warm content, fast loading, mobile friendly, clear on services, easy to navigate of course, and also I would say easy to book an appointment as well. so most importantly I would say it communicates empathy, like I said before. And clients don't want to dig in for information. It needs to be readily available. And, and if I talk about pillar three as quickly as possible which is again reviews and reputation which I explained in pillar one, which was connected, connected to Google, r- re-... the Google profile. I always say your reputation is your marketing. if your reputation is not, handled properly, that will be a big, impact because a single negative review that goes unaddressed can do more harm than a thousand advertising dollars that can fix.

So, the fastest way to improve online presence is to build a system where clients are asked for reviews after posi- after, after they have a visit, and the team knows exactly when and how to ask that review. Of course, there needs to be a training on how to ask a review, and owners basically respond to in a comment. Basically, the owner responds to those reviews, base- based on whether it's a positive or negative review. So I would say those are the key aspects. these aren't advanced tactics, I would say. These are foundational behaviors, and they create immediate and I would say measurable improvements. Okay. Lester, what, what can, a practice owner do if they do get a bad review, and how can they avoid that? Like, you spoke a little bit about, you know, training the staff on how to get a review. I- I'm trying to understand why is it so important. I understand that it's feedback.

So let- let's help break it down. Why... How can we address a bad review, and how can we ensure that we are not asking for bad reviews? Yeah. I would say the reason for a bad review is you need to go to the roots of it. Like, you need to basically get in touch with the, ... get in touch with this owner and ask what really happened 'cause, if you don't go to the roots of it, you cannot, solve this. It's a wound you need to basically treat to the ro- to the root. If not, it's just going to be, not helpful. So you need to go ask what happened, why did it cause, what led to this issue, and then basically, you need to c- come up with a solution if you can change this scenario in the way that you could provide some extra care to change this person's mind, to actually, you know, give you a good re- I mean, give you a positive review.

I would say you should always try to make that person write a good review for you. You should actually have it from your heart. Do the care you can to make sure that person feels good. And of course, it's their... It- it- that would be their, I would say it's their, willingness to give you a positive review if you actually do best by your care- level of care and expertise. Okay. So is it possible to change a bad review, like, on Google? Of Is there some- Oh, okay. There is. Mm-hmm. Do you have a- There is. There is, yes. Oh, okay. I'm sorry? Is there... No, I was going to ask, is there a procedure for that? There is, yes. You can... basically, once a review is done, and if you, the... Of course, the person who did the review has to change it. so there is, that, flexibility. Again, you need to have a conversation with the person who had the review, come to the, come to the root cause, solve the root cause, and then if the owner is willing to change it, then the person who put the post of the review is willing to change it, yes, you can.

Okay. Okay, that's good to know. now, Lester, looking ahead, what do you believe will separate practices that thrive from those that fall behind in the next one to three years, especially in terms of marketing and, client experience? I would say we are entering a new era in veterinary practice ownership where the differences between success and struggle, it'll come down to one thing, and that is strategic consistency. So the practice that will try, I would say there are few key areas that they will be, focusing on, and that is basically, they build a recognizable brand, not a logo. Mm-hmm. ... Mm-hmm. It... A logo with a message, I would say, but not just a logo. People will choose clinics they feel connected to, and then there's a brand plus story and plus emotional trust, which equals stronger retention. So...

And al- and also practices that treat marketing as a business system, not as, not as, not as an occasional post that they do once in a li- once in a lifetime or once in a blue moon or seasonal campaign, but a- Mm-hmm. ... but as a core thing, like, like a really just thing that they keep doing. So- Mm-hmm. And also practices that embrace content as storytelling. Like I said, I kept c- I kept telling storytelling. Storytelling is basically marketing, so... And also the practices that align the message with the internal culture. If your team doesn't believe the story, the client won't either. So make sure your team understands the vision, the mission of your practice, and then marketing will actually follow. So marketing and culture must support each other, so... And of course, use data to guide decisions.

Data is your best friend. No more guessing, no more reactive marketing. The future is always measurement with insights and sustainable action. So I would say that's where we should be loo- looking for the next one to three years. Okay. That's, pretty cool. (clears throat) And, you know, for practice owners who want to strengthen their marketing but don't know where to start, what's the most effective next step they can take right now? Yeah. So, the most effective next, next step is to basically book a marketing strategy meeting with us, here at Echo Marketing. again, a marketing strategy meeting is not a sales call. It's basically a diagnostic clarity session.

I would say a health checkup that you do. Of course, we all do a health checkup to check on, you know...... or what is our blood glucose levels, our pressure and all that stuff, right? So it's just like that you go check your online visibility. You do a health check-up on where you are standing. It's a chance for you to get real data, backed insights into your current marketing performance. And during that session, our experts will walk you through how your practice ranks on Google and Google Maps, of course. And what clients see when they search your name, how your reviews influence conversion, whether your website is helping or hurting your visibility, how your competitors compare, of course who, who you are, who, who your competitors are I would say, and which opportunities could drive the fastest growth. So I have seen most owners who come to these meeting walk away saying, "I finally understand what's going on behind the scenes." So, so we want that clarity for you, and often this has more value than any single marketing tactic.

Because, like I said, it's, data is very important so lean onto the data. Whether you choose to work with us or not afterwards, the MSM or basically this marketing strategy meeting, gives you a clear understanding of your, strengths, weaknesses and growth opportunities. So something every practice owner needs to be confident and strategic, strategic to, strategic to take decisions on. So if you're serious about staying competitive and future-proofing your practice, just like this topic that we're talking about today, the smartest move is to schedule that meeting with us and see what you tru- where you truly stand in the digital marketing space. Yeah.

Hey, oh, well, Lester, thank you so much, you know, for your time- Thank you so much as well.... and, really, yeah, appreciate you, you know, changing, my personal perspective on marketing. leveled it up a few notches definitely, and, of course, thank you for sharing this resource. I think the link has been drop- dropped in the chat below for anyone interested in booking that, marketing strategy meeting with Lester and the team. So thank you, Lester, once again. we really appreciate your insight over here. Now, moving on to the next session, how veterinary practices can... Oh, I'm sorry. We don't have that session here tonight. But, yeah. So next session is how compassionate leadership builds stronger teams and healthier practices.

Some leaders fix systems while others build culture. With over 15 years of experience spanning clinical care, management and mental health advocacy, Leah Paris has devoted her career to building veterinary teams that feel supported, safe and inspired. After witnessing first-hand the toll burnout takes on professionals who care deeply, she became a certified compassion fatigue professional and founded the Southern Meridian Veterinary Consulting. Tonight, she's going to show us how compassionate leadership isn't just a soft skill, it's truly a strategic advantage. Leah, thank you so much for bringing the heart and strategy to the veterinary workplace.

Of course. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And I think, you know, we can address some of the comments that we had, with regards to getting in new staff and, of course, retaining them as well. So just to frame this, segment here, multiple recent analysis have confirmed what many of you feel every day, which is burnout, compassion fatigue and mental health strain are now systemic issues in veterinary medicine and not isolated anecdotes. Studies link poor work/life balance, lack of supportive leadership to higher distress, increased errors and turnover. Many clinics still lack that formal mental health policies or resilience frameworks. That means leadership style is no longer just a soft factor.

Compassionate, psychological safe cultures have become the core risk management and retention strategy for any practice that wants to keep good people. Leah, compassionate leadership sounds ideal, but how can practice owners balance empathy with accountability to maintain high performing teams? Well, I think a lot of people worry that being compassionate means that you are soft or that you're just letting people off the hook. - Yeah. ... but in reality, compassion and accountability go hand in hand. Being compassionate is just seeing the person behind the role. We all know everybody has life happening outside of the clinic and everyone has their, you know, off days, and sometimes people are gonna be juggling more than what we, others, realize. for example, you might have a technician that's amazing with patients but falls behind with medical notes. Sure, it's frustrating. we obviously need those records completed accurately and timely, but instead of just telling them to fix it, you should be asking what was going on.

they might tell you that they're feeling overwhelmed by their workload or they're struggling to prioritize, but once you talk it through with them, you can create a plan together. for example, a small workflow adjustments, weekly check-ins, and even breaking down that documentation into manageable steps. - Okay.... however, you do need to be clear about the expectations and timelines, but you also have to let them know that you understand the challenge and that you are there to help.... within a few weeks you might see documentation is back on track. And that technician is now more engaged and they're confident in their work. And then that's where the accountability part fits in. it's not punishment but it's clarity and consistent follow through. So, people do best when the rules are fair, they're supported, and leadership isn't just watching but they're actually helping them succeed. with that, consistency is huge. I've seen clinics where some mistakes are ignored while others get called out. And that creates a lot of frustration, and can erode trust over time with your staff. But when you pair empathy with clear expectations and follow through, you build a culture where people feel safe, supported, motivated to meet your standards.

high performing teams come from this balance. Compassion first, then accountability. And a lot of modeling from leadership. So if your team sees you handling challenges with empathy but still holding people and, and yourself to high standards, they'll naturally step up to that level too. Okay, Leah. I mean, I love this. Seeing the person behind the role. And, how can leaders justify... Okay, like I'm just putting myself in a practice owner's position. I'm looking at the PnL charts and, we are not doing that great. I'm looking at the KPIs. again, you know, we're not doing that great. how can I bring myself to see this person behind the role and address them as compassionately as you have? Because I'm thinking, the numbers aren't adding up.

Yeah. So I think that goes back to fostering a culture of psychological safety, and pulling them aside and really letting them, open up to you, be transparent without any fear of punishment, or retaliation of any type. really understanding what is causing them to struggle is what is going to get you a step closer to figuring out what you can do to help. So, that means, you know, we just had to really find out where they struggle, right? yeah. So, Leah, what early warning signs indicate that a team or leader is at risk of burnout? And what are the immediate steps that can be taken to intervene? Yes. This is great. so burnout usually creeps in pretty quietly. it doesn't make a grand entrance. It's rarely dramatic at first.

you might notice a technician who's usually upbeat and they're becoming irritable, withdrawn. They're making more mistakes than normal. they're coming in late or suddenly avoiding teamwork or daily interactions. with leaders, they can experience it too, and then on their end it often looks like, you know, not able to make good decisions, they're avoiding tough conversations, or they're just constantly feeling behind no matter how much they work. and when that happens, the energy in the clinic changes and you can feel it. Mm-hmm. so early recognition is critical. one-on-one check-ins are the most effective tool I've seen, and I've used myself. If you just ask people how they're really doing. so going back to what I was previously talking about, just having those conversations and really understanding and c- see where they're coming from. I used to hand out, professional quality of life surveys on a regular basis. Sometimes every quarter, sometimes even monthly if things in the clinic were a little bit more tense.

Mm-hmm. but it was a really helpful way to get a sense of how people were doing. especially for those who aren't super comfortable speaking up in person. and this is actually one of the things that I coach other practice managers to do because it gives you insight into your team and it helps you catch those issues before they become bigger problems. So- Mm-hmm. ... during these one-on-one check-ins, you're asking about stress, you're asking about their workload, any challenges, and you're listening without judgment. Yeah. And I know that sometimes that's gonna be hard. but sometimes the fix is small. maybe you just need to do some redistributing of tasks or different delegation. maybe you need to do a little bit of schedule adjusting. or sometimes you just need to give somebody a mental health day.

other times it can be bigger. like you need to be revising a full workflow. bringing in extra support, and of course that's one of the things that a lot of our clinics, are saying in the chat that they are struggling with, is, getting and retaining staff. so bringing in that extra support sometimes is a solution. or even just clarifying roles. but the key is noticing it early and acting because if you wait, burnout spreads, mistakes increase, and then that's when your morale tanks. So, leaders modeling the healthy behavior is just as important. If staff see you skipping meals, working late every night, or refusing help, which most managers and leaders do 'cause we think we can do everything, your staff is gonna feel pressured to do the same. And that is gonna accelerate burnout.

so intervening early can save both the team and the practice from those bigger problems. And even small gestures like listening or offering support, adjusting a workload, that can prevent burnout from escalating. And so it's... Essentially it's proactive care for your people.And it's one of the most important responsibilities a leader has in a high-stress environment like veterinary medicine. Right. And, Leah, you mentioned over there, when we are talking to that, you know, concerned team member, that the practice owner should listen without judgment. Mm-hmm. How do you listen without judgment? So, this is something that, I think I even struggle with myself sometimes, and it, it can be difficult.

but active listening is something that, I am currently working on myself, and it's something that I would highly recommend others. active listening is really staying in tune to what they're saying and essentially repeating it back to them, showing that you understand what's happening. And when you focus on that mindset of, of that active listening, it kind of steers your mind away from the judgment side of things, 'cause you're too focused on h- actually hearing your employee and actually hearing what they're saying. You're not judging because there's no room in your brain at the moment to think about it. Got it. You're actively listening then?

Yes (laughs). And now, Leah, how can leadership practices intentionally foster psychological safety, trust, and engagement across both clinical and administrative teams? So, psychological safety is a, a, a term that I feel like is kind of new in veterinary medicine in the past couple of years. But, it's really just about making your people feel safe to speak up without fear. and it applies to- Mm-hmm. ... everyone, your technicians, your doctors, your front desk, your kennel, maybe even your cleaning staff, because every role matters. if someone shares an idea or they raise a concern, it should be acknowledged. you should thank them, and you should act on it when it's possible. People need to feel that their voice matters, and it's not just that they exist in the schedule.

That, that they're, they're just a warm body. check-ins should be human and not just about tasks. So, asking again, "How's it going? What's stressful? How can I help?" And then, actually listening with your active listening. mistakes happen, always, but what matters is how leadership responds to them. I was actually gonna s- share a story about one of my technicians, but, I thought I'd be vulnerable for a minute and share one of my own experiences. So, years ago (laughs) when I was managing a practice, as a licensed technician, I was also helping out on the floor. My mind was spread a little bit thin, and I accidentally gave the wrong medication to a patient.

fortunately, you know, I went straight to the doctor, told them what was happening, and luckily the patient was fine. However, if that had been one of my technicians, I would have pulled them aside and had a private conversation to see what happened. but since I was my own manager, I walked through what happened myself, and figured out how to prevent it next time. but I took accountability, and, and the whole staff saw it. The team saw that mistakes happen, but it's how you handle them, calmly and responsibly, that's what matters. recognition is also a huge factor for engagement, so simple gestures like a shout-out in a huddle or a handwritten note per- for those people who don't like that verbal, praise.

Celebrating small wins, not just the big ones, that can really make a big difference. structured opportunities like rotating huddles where both your clinical staff and your administrative sha- staff share wins together or they share their concerns, that also fosters trust and engagement. And over time, people are gonna start volunteering to help without having to be asked. your collaboration improves. Your staff retention gets better. the culture of psychological safety and trust has a huge impact on everything, your communication, your morale, your team cohesion, and ultimately patient care. It takes intentional effort from leadership, but the payoff is massive. teams that are motivated are resilient, they're aligned, and in a clinic that, where alignment shows up, you have happier clients, you have better patient outcomes, you have a team that genuinely wants to be there.

Absolutely. And Leah, in the example you just mentioned, right? and you said to yourself, it, if you were in the shoes of the, you know, the doctor, you would have had, had a conversation, a one-on-one conversation with the team member who made that mistake. When are you having this conversation? So, you need to be having those types of conversations when an incident like that happens. saving it most of the time, you think you're gonna do it at the end of the day, rolls around, you're too busy, it gets pushed again. Then the next day rolls around and it becomes busy and it gets pushed a- back again. It really needs to be addressed in the moment.

I know that emotions can sometimes be high in the moment, but that's also another reason why it's good to address it at that time, because you can tell that team member truly cares about what's happened, and that they want to improve. If they didn't want to improve and they didn't care about that patient, they probably would have just ignored and moved on, and not said anything to the doctor. So, with them being accountable and going up to the doctor and, and actually letting them know, I think that's a sign of them wanting management, or leadership to know what happened so that they can, feel a little bit more supported, however leadership can do that.

Right on. And, you mentioned there, something with regards to verbal and written, communication, right? Me being, you know, your host today, I'm... You can already tell, you know, I don't, I don't really have any issues with talking to another person and getting verbal feedback. but th- this point, I was just wondering how, how real is it? Like, as far as,... I don't... g- give me an example. Absolutely. So, like you said, let's just work on that example, right? If you want to communicate to a team member... as you mentioned, you know, recognition is a huge point, right? So you're in the huddle and you bring up, "Dawn, you d- did..." (laughs) "You've done a good job," you know?

(laughs) (laughs) Yeah, I- I like to pat myself on the back from time to time. (laughs) (laughs) So yeah. You know, "You've done a good job. Well done," you know? And, me being... Personally, me, I will take that right there and then, and I- I will appreciate it, right? But are there some people that... Who would... under the circumstances, that there are more eyes on that person. You know, it's a team huddle, and they would... you know, that would backfire. Instead of motivating them, that would actually make them feel like, "Okay, I need to do things that will not make me stand out because I don't want to stand out." (laughs) Because I don't want to stand out.

Yeah. so it- it's funny that you mentioned that. ev- every time that I'm at a, a new clinic, I have, a sheet that new hires fill out of their favorite things. And one of the questions... It's not really a favorite, but it's, "How do you prefer to receive recognition?" and so they can either tell me, you know, little notes, a text message, a high five. so I like to cater to how that person responds best to verbal recognition. Mm-hmm. If there's somebody who I can tell they're very quiet and they don't want to be called out in front of everybody, then that's the type of person that you're gonna s- you know, bring to the side and say, "Hey, you did a really good job with Miss Smith and Fluffy yesterday.

Just wanted to let you know." so just kind of learning the way that your staff responds best to recognition, and then catering to each person, and bringing that to them in the way that they best receive it. Okay. And, this is an interesting question. How do leaders rebuild trust with a team that has been hurt by past poor leadership? What do you think about that? Yikes, yeah. This is a good one. I'm actually speaking at the Western Conference in February, and one of, the topics I'm speaking on is how to get your teams engaged. I have so many thoughts in my head about this. I'm gonna have to think. Like, this... I- I mean, from the start, if you're a new manager, a new leader coming into a team that you said that's kind of been a little bit damaged, to start rebuilding that trust, the first thing to do is listen.

I normally will go into clinics and have one-on-one conversations with each employee, no matter the department, and I'll get feedback of, you know, what str- what are the struggles, what are their concerns, why do they like working there. and that, I feel, is one way to start that trust-building process. Again, it goes back to that active listening. and then once you listen to them and they bring concerns to your attention, it's acting on those concerns. So, if, an employee comes and tells you that they're upset that there aren't any snacks in the break room, and the next day- Yeah. ... you come and you bring snacks, and you put it in the break room, that right there just builds trust, because they know that you heard them and you took action.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And, I'm just curious. What happens if we don't do those things we ask feedback for? We don't put the, mini fridge in the break room? (laughs) I mean, obviously, within reason, there are gonna be things that your staff wants that you can't provide. I think sometimes... you know, pick your battles is what I like to say, but not really. I think a lot of those times, you have to kind of find a common ground, like, "Okay. Well, I can't give you, you know, snacks, but maybe I can host lunch one, one day a week." you know, just kind of finding something else that might be appreciated by them that's along the same lines of what they're looking for, just so they know that you are taking it into consideration.

What they are exactly asking cannot be provided, but you are still making an effort to provide them with something. Right. The reason why I asked is I wanted to understand how important it is to being heard, right? Mm-hmm. Like- like you said, you know, you might not necessarily have the mini fridge, exactly, but you heard them, right? because I know sometimes, there are surveys that go around. "Oh, we would love to get your feedback." Mm-hmm. You give the feedback again and again and again- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ... but (laughs) you know, no one is hearing us and- Yep. ... nothing is being done there. And, wh- what does that do to the morale? Y- I mean, that, that is your surefire way to burnout, and that is essentially another way, to really get your turnover going.

if you have staff that feel like they aren't heard and they're not being listened to and, you're constantly getting the same concerns brought to your attention over and over but aren't doing anything about it, your staff isn't gonna think that you're there to support them or there to lead them, and that's when they're gonna go find somewhere else that they feel will help them achieve success in their, life as well as at the clinic. Right on. Well, Leah, thank you so much, you know, for your insights on culture as well as emotional resilience. thank you- Yeah. Thank you. ... Leah and... (laughs) Right. And, next up we are going to, shift into an area where owners m- might find a bit intimidating, but absolutely essential.

Yeah, let me... Yep. Navigating DEA Compliance: Practice Acquisitions and Strategic Partnerships. So... When veterinary practices grow, change partners, or expand locations, the legal landscape becomes just as important as the clinical one. Mary Montjoy has spent more than 20 years guiding practice owners through some of the biggest decisions of their careers, from acquisitions, to compliance, to strategic leaderships and partnerships. Known for her clarity, precision and deep industry knowledge, Mary helps professional avoid costly mistakes and protect what they've worked so hard to build. Tonight, she's going to bring us the legal lens that every owner needs to see through. Mary, we are grateful to have your legal clarity in the room.

Hmm. Thanks for including me tonight. I've learned a lot. I have to say, Leah, you make me laugh. I, I once asked a team member what they, wha- how they felt and what they needed to be rewarded, and I was told, "A great big check." (laughs) No note, nothing, just money. I was, cracking up because he's right next door right now and I wi- I wish I could bring him in here. So thank you for that. -huh. but it's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for including me. Absolutely, Mary. And if it's possible for us to get you a little bit closer to the microphone, so we can hear. I'm gonna try. (laughs) Okay. Mm-hmm. There I turned it all the way up. Let's see if I can do this. I'll talk louder.

That's much better, Mary. Thank you. I used my courtroom voice. Go ahead. (laughs) (laughs) That'll get, everyone's attention- . ... right there. Yeah, absolutely. So Mary, as control substances and prescription monitoring come i- under increasing scrutiny, veterinary practices are being reminded that DEA compliance isn't optional or static. It's an evolving landscape backed by detailed federal guidance and state level monitoring requirements. At the same time, corporate consolidations, private equity investment in veterinary practices have accelerated again after a quieter 2023, so bringing more complex deal structures, partnerships and exit options to the table for our owners. Now, my question to you, Mary, is, DEA Compliance is a major concern for veterinary practices, what are the top mistakes you see owners make and how can they proactively safeguard their practices?

Sure. Let's go through the top, right? And I will say this applies to corporations, it applies to individual practice owners, single practice owners, multiple practice owners, specialty and emergency, general practice. It is probably the biggest minefield I face on a daily, hopefully not a daily basis, okay? But (laughs) more often than I'd like to. So first of all, the biggest one is poor record keeping. And I will, I will say it starts with the fact that veterinarians don't get this training in school. If I could change one thing, I would say give them at least 10 hours of understanding that their DEA registration is, is not a right, it's a privilege- Mm-hmm.

... and that when they lose it, they are probably never gonna get it back. And that if anyone asks them to be the DEA registrant at a facility that they do not own, they should think seriously and consider whether or not that is a responsibility they are willing to take on. Mm-hmm. Because at the end of the day, the inventory, even if it's purchased by the corporation, it is their personal inventory. It is their personal responsibility. It might have been paid for by the corporation and they think they own it. They don't own it. Mm-hmm. The doctor owns it. And so number one, make sure that there is a balance at least once a day, once, whatever you're comfortable with as the DEA registrant, you need to know that those records are being kept.

QBACs, QBACs is awesome. It is not the be all and end all of regulatory compliance. I've heard that more times than I can tell you. "We have a QBACs." Okay, great. Who put the information in it? Who had access to it? Who controls the logs and how often is it being done? And are you checking it or are you just relying on someone else? Do they know how to account for hub loss? Do they know what a 222 is? Do they know where the records have to be kept and how they need to be separated? So nu- number one, first of all, you need to know what proper record keeping is. And second, then you have to train the people that you rely on a daily basis to do it properly, because you can't do it all yourself.

Mm-hmm. Number two, where are those drugs stored and are they stored properly? Controlled 2s have to be separate from everything else, right? Everything else can be in a separate, separate safe. And they need to be accounted for separately. They need to, be s- the safes need to be secured, right? They need to be locked, they need to be... they need to have a camera on them, right? (laughs) There's, there's very specific things that you need to do to secure those substances in your hospital. -You need to know who has access to them, who handles them, and you control who that is. If you are relying on someone to order those substances for you, whether you're in a single practice or you're working for a corporation that is ordering, you need a power of attorney in place, right?

Mm-hmm. And, and that protects you and it protects the person who's ordering those controlled substances for you. It's not a complicated form. They're out there. If anyone needs one, you can email me. I'm happy to send you the form free of charge because it is out there on the internet. You can Google it. The AVMA will give it to you. you... Whoever you're ordering your drug supplies would probably be able to give it to you. failure to maintain DEA registrations. They renew. A lot of times, practices are busy, put someone in charge of who's in charge of making sure a DVM's licenses is current, who's in charge of making sure all the DEA registrations are current, who's in charge- Mm-hmm.

... of making sure whether you also need a state level DE- DEA registration. Some states have more, and stricter compliance obligations than... I'm sorry, the office lights just went out, but I can't control that. They'll come on. you know, they have m- stricter, compliance obligations under state law. Some have no additional requirements. So, be aware of where you live, where you practice, and if there are two levels of compliance that you need to, to be taken care of. And the single most important thing that nobody ever wants to do, and this is when they call, call me, there is a diversion and everyone panics. And what I tell them is, "Did you steal it? Did you use it? Did you keep it secure and then someone broke the system?" Your obligation is to report the theft or the loss or the diversion within 24 hours to the DEA. If you do that, no one is pointing the finger at you. You get in trouble when you don't report and then the DEA comes in or you know there's, a loss and you've, you've not even checked your records. Is it a hub loss?

Did somebody waste something? Did somebody break something? Did something not get put into inventory correctly? Your obligation is, if there's a loss, to report it, right? And I, I could... I always tell my clients, "You don't wanna be the first hospital on the cover of today's Veterinary Business for not reporting it timely." I live in fear of that and there are plenty of large organizations that I try to guard with my life because they don't wanna listen, right? And if you're a, a doctor in one of those hospitals and you are a registrant, you make sure that you sign off on the report, that you know exactly what happened, that it's being reported timely. If you have an obligation to also notify the local police department, fulfill it.

If you don't know, call someone that knows. Call your attorney, call, an attorney that... or a regulatory compliance expert that can help you and guide you through that process. It's not hard. There's no special magic to it. The DEA has a form. You report it. Sometimes the hardest thing is to figure out who do I email it to? But there's a local office at e- in each state or location that you, you would send it to. Sometimes they do absolutely nothing. You scratch your head and say, "I just reported 45 opioids, you know, missing and nobody ever came and knocked on my door." Other times, you report something you think is small and that they're at your door the next day.

So, the other thing you have to do once you report is make sure that your hospital is in compliance. I don't care if you have to run around, lock the door, get your staff in place, because once they enter your hospital, they are gonna ask you for your drug log. They're gonna ask you for... You should have a readily retrievable drug log at the front desk. You must comply. You cannot avoid it. If you do that, you're gonna be in huge trouble. Just comply. If you don't have it, okay, you don't. They're gonna then ask for all your records. The best thing you can do is keep your records in a handy place and have anybody that knows or has access to those drugs or is going to help someone that walks in the door know where that is to show that you're prepared and that you're cooperative.

and last thing is inadequate policies and training. You're your own worst enemy if you don't have SOPs and you don't train the people around you. so, you, you know, if you don't know how to write them, there are some compliance experts, several out there, that can help you write them. and then you have to enforce them and you have to train, not just once, but all the time. And as you're hiring employees who have access to controlled substances, you have to do one of two things. You have to do a background check or you have to have them sign an affidavit saying that they have no history of drug use, any kind of,... whether they have been convicted or accused, that they don't have a substance abuse problem, that they don't use, recreational marijuana, which in some states is legal. It is still not federally legal.

I get calls like that all the time. "Hey, I'm hiring somebody who said on their background, on their thing that they use marijuana medically. Can I hire them?" Not if they have access to your controlled drug inventory. I wish I could give a different answer, but that's the right answer. so how to safeguard is do a lot of the things I just said, right? (laughs) Meticulously keep your logs. Strengthen physil- physical security if it doesn't exist. attach those safes to a wall, put a camera on them. impres- im- implement access controls and audits. Make sure you're doing your audits and absolutely do a biannual inventory if you're buying a hospital.You want them to close out and reverse distribute their inventory, if possible, and you be prepared on the day of closing to have what you need to practice in your hospital. This is the biggest gap I see, even from large corporations who are buying. They don't insist on that biannual inventory, they- they just buy it like any other inventory, and it isn't. So you- Mm-hmm.... if you're selling, you wanna close out your inventory because if you leave it there and someone else picks it up and there's a problem, you've abandoned your inventory and you're the one that's gonna be in trouble with the DEA, not the- not the buyer. Never abandon your inventory. Know how to properly waste it.

The days of shooting it into kitty litter are long over. There are reverse distributors out there that can help you. and as I said, report a loss timely. It's the biggest thing you can do to help yourself if there's a diversion. Okay. really, thank you, Mary- Yeah. ... for that amazingly comprehensive answer. I mean- (laughs) Yeah, (laughs) everyone, get back to your, offices and make sure that drug log is there, you know, front and center at the front desk as well as, you know, everything else Mary just mentioned. I mean, really appreciate it, Mary. Really, really appreciate it. No problem. And... Absolutely. And, when structuring these partnerships or acquisitions, now what legal considerations are most often overlooked by practice owners that could lead to financial or operational challenges?

So I guess, like, if we break it down, right? A- a strategic partnership can be you're starting up a business, and you and a partner are gonna start a hospital. Okay. A strategic partnership can be that you're allowing an associate to buy you, right? A strategic partnership can be you're entering into transaction with a veterinary consolidator where you are selling only a percentage of your practice and not the whole thing, in a joint venture model, right? All of those things are the same when it comes to risk and structuring. The best thing I can say and how to sum it up is, you need to know what your exit is at your start. That is the one thing that people really kind of overlook. I almost call it, like, you're getting married and there's a prenup. You need that prenup on the way in the door to set the rules of what will happen if there is an exit, right? So how do you get brought out?

How does that appraisal practice happen, right? What does your life in that practice look like? What kind of rights and obligations does each person have to the other? What happens if you have two partners 50/50 and you can't agree? Is there a mechanism in that agreement that will allow that tie to be broken, whether it's a third party that you both trust, which I- I really don't recommend because that person could die. You never update your agreements. Take it from me, I have one right now, two doctors, 50/50, one wants to sell, one does not. The tiebreaker is someone who's retired and out of the industry, and I'm trying to get them to come to some sort of an agreement so that the one who wants to exit can exit, right? It's very difficult.

So think about the life cycle of y- of your practice and how you want it- want to end it. the other thing is poorly defined compensation and distributions. Everybody should know how the money that comes in is going to be distributed, right? It's... So if you're 60/40, what does that look like? Well, all the expenses have to get paid off the top. Do you reserve for taxes? If there are taxes to be paid on an individual level, are you gonna make tax distributions through the year to help people pay those taxes? So all of that is an operating agreement. Generally, these are LLCs that people are entering into, very simple, very easy agreements- Mm-hmm.

... but they need to contain a whole lot of provisions. So a good lawyer that is gonna say to you, "Great, here are the 15 things that you guys need to think about. Who can sign checks? Does it require two signatures? Does it require one signature? At what point does it require two? So can each of you spend up to $1,000 but anything over 1,000, you both have to agree? What if somebody wants to buy new equipment? Who's gonna-" Mm-hmm. "... are there personal guarantees tied to that equipment?" Yeah. "What does that look like? Who's willing to step up if..." You need to figure all that out. When I sit with new clients, whether they're entering into an agreement with a consolidator or another veterinarian, I literally will email them a list of 15 or 20 things that I want them to think about, and then we'll have a conversation.

And you each- Mm-hmm.... should have your own lawyer, right? If you- you're having a partnership. Because the lawyer that helps you... If s- one lawyer helps you both, that's okay, you can waive that conflict. But if you can't- Yeah. ... agree down that line, down the line, that lawyer can't represent either one of you. So- Okay. ... you need... I... My personal recommendation is you each have your own attorney review those documents. One will draft, one will mark it up. Yes, it's double the cost. I get it. It sucks, I know. But it's the best money you'll spend because you'll both be fairly represented. So I say, you know, just be clear about responsibilities, debts, obligations, and exit, and you're probably about 98% on your way to success.

Okay. Okay. and, I think there is a question from Amy, to you, Mary. I think it would be great if you could answer in the chat- Yeah. ... after this, our little, discussion here because I think, ...... her questions are fantastic. I see two questions that are pretty easy. So, - Oh. ... the DEA registrant is granting the power of attorney to the person that is going to order for them, that is correct. You're delegating- Hmm.... your authority to them. And that needs to be in place, even if they're going on CSOS and, look, when they log on and say they're you, and they don't have that power of attorney in place, they're committing a federal crime. Okay?

They're, they're literally saying that they are someone they are not. And that is the DEA's perspective. And every time they log on and do that, that's a separate violation. And I, I'm not up to date, but it's about $13,000 for each time they do it. So, it can be expensive, right? And then if the practice doesn't require drug testing, should there be questions on the employment application about recreational drug use? Absolutely. History of drug use, criminal convictions, anything drug-related should be there. And they, they will sign an affidavit saying no, and that will cover you if it turns out not to be true. and the DEA comes in and says, "Did you do a background check?" You can say, "No, I didn't, I don't, but here's the affidavit.

I asked these questions, and this is what they told me." So it kind of clears your plate and, you know, your liability to the DEA for not inquiring. Mary, I was just curious. So, just off of that answer, because previously, you said that if they are, working with controlled substances that, you really need to do that background check and then ask them about their, you know? No, it's either or- So is it mandatory or... or is there options? So, a background check is not... What is mandatory on the employer is to ensure that anyone with access to your drug inventory does not have a history of drug abuse or interaction with drugs or is presently using drugs. You can do that in one of two ways.

You can run a background check that will give you their criminal history. But that can be- Yeah. ... expensive, right? Depending on what state you're in and what, what you wanna run. Or you can a-... There are questions that I... Again, if anybody wants them, we can give you a sample of questions that should be part of their application for employment. And if they, they are supposed to answer honestly, they're signing it that it's truthful, you're allowed to rely on that instead of the background check. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. But you need to do one or the other. I'm, I'm a very conservative person. I will always go for the background check, if your practice can afford it, just because people aren't always truthful. And if they really want that job, they're gonna say things that maybe aren't true or are inaccurate or downplay things that maybe have happened in the past. So if you really wanna- ... protect yourself, you would run that background check.

Gotcha. Thank you very much for that, Mary. And, now last but not least, "For independent veterinarians considering private equity or partnerships, how can they balance protecting their long-term interests with remaining competitive in a consolidating market?" Okay, there's a lot in that question. (laughs) But I think that independent veterinarians can stay competitive while protecting their l- long-term interest by being intentional about how they structure their deal, the timing of their deal, and the leverage that they have, right? So first of all, you need to know what your long-term goals are before you can even enter into a transaction. know whether you wanna fully exit, whether you wanna exit over time, whether you wanna, you wanna continue working.

Do you want to sell your practice 100% and continue to work? There are many, many different ways to exit, whether you're selling to another veterinarian or whether you're selling to a corporation. And they are very expert at coming in and having a conversation with you. And I'll say more and more of them, they used to be eith- an either or, right? Companies would either only wanna buy 100% of your practice, or they only wanted to buy up to 60% of your practice, and they wanted you to stay on and help them build that practice and align your interests. And maybe three years down the road, buy out your other 40%, right? Because they would- Mm-hmm.

... keep you on. Most of them now are willing to do either or. So I think the one thing that you need to do is your homework and, and that's in your own head. What are you prepared to do? What do you want to do? Are you a control freak? Can you let, can you partner with someone and only own 40% of your practice and give up control and be a minority owner? Or are you better off saying, "You know what? I'm gonna sell you 100% and I'm gonna work here for the next one to three years," depending on the deal that you strike. So a lot of it is very personal. I will also say one of the major things I, I always urge them to do is if you're talking to three, four, or five consolidators, however many you're talking to, you need to ask them all for at least five people that have sold to them that they are willing to share their contact information and that you can talk to them. And you don't wanna just know, hey, did you get the most money?

You wanna know how did the integration go? How did they treat your team on the way in the door? How did they keep your culture? H- what changed? Did they change your pins? Did they drive your team cr-... Most veterinarians really care about what that looks like post-closing, especially if they're gonna exit 100%. So you want to know does their culture fit your culture? Does what they value in a company, are those your values? Are those your team's values? And there are different companies with different values. It sounds crazy. They all wanna make money. They're all in the consolidation business.And I- I- I'm not gonna shout at any one, but there are some that are much better at integration than others, right?

Where I get calls from clients post-closing that say, "Wow, this was the best decision I ever made." And then I get other calls from clients saying, "Oh my God, they sold me a bill of goods and this isn't anything that I thought it was going to be." So, do your due diligence. The person who can protect you the most is you. You should also build a team of experts to help you before you ever go to market. You need... If you- Right.... have a CPA, great. You need to reach out to a- a veterinary-specific CPA that will help you and your regular accountant understand what those companies are looking right at in terms of what is your EBITDA, what kind of add backs you can make, so add backs are very important, right? If you have an expense now, and we all do it, we pay our kids' college tuition through our business, we pay our car payment through our business, we pay...

I don't know. We buy our team pizza once a week, right? And that adds up over time. Those expenses that aren't going to continue once your business is sold, those are called add backs because that's money that's gonna be on the table, and you want to capture those add backs. So, you need a veterinary-specific accountant who's gonna understand what they'll accept as an add back and what they won't. Because if you're selling at a 10 or 11 times X, every dollar you can capture on those add backs is more money for you when you sell. Mary, we will have to wrap up. So, you want to understand that structure. I'm good. (laughs) (laughs) I could go on for an hour, but yes, you're right.

N- no, definitely, Mary. Thank you, you know, so much for that masterclass in navigating those high-stake decisions. Thank you so much, Mary. You're welcome. (laughs) (laughs) You know what, f- m- I feel bad for cutting you off right there, so I would like to give you, the opportunity to give a key takeaway, perhaps, you know, from all this, for our, you know, attendees. What's, what's the one key takeaway, if you don't mind, just... The one key takeaway is don't think you can do it by yourself. And spend the time and some money to get the right advice from people that live and breathe in this industry, from marketing people to accountants, to lawyers, to financial experts, to practice management consultants. Let them help you.

You can't do this alone. Love it. Thank you so much, Mary. Thank you. You're welcome. And then, here we go. Now, we are going to shift into the world of data-driven growth, location strategy and expansion readiness. And for that, we have Rhonda Meyer, whose work helps owners place their vets wisely. Here we go. Where you choose to build, grow or expand a veterinary practice is one of the most consequential strategic decisions an owner makes. With over two decades in experience of healthcare partnerships, market analytics and strategic finance, Rhonda Meyer helps clinics see the bigger picture, the demographic momentum, competitive pressures and geographic trends that determine their success. Tonight, she's bringing the data-driven insights that help owners plan for the future with confidence.

Rhonda, thank you so much for helping owners see the opportunities hidden in the data. Thank you for having me, and thank you for saving data for the last. (laughs) (laughs) I mean, I don't know why all the mathematics and the numbers get, you know, the best slot of the event. Y- y- we make sure we keep it f- the best for the last, so of course. Thank you, Rhonda. I'll, I'll try and make it interesting enough to keep everybody awake. (laughs) Appreciate that. So, veterinary care has become big business. In some regions, large consolidators now control thousands of clinics and are exploring multi-billion euro listings. This is, you know, on the European side of things. So, while prac- private equity groups continue to see veterinary medicine d- as a growth vehicle.

At the same time, macroeconomic reports show that active client numbers per practice are declining and competition is intensifying, putting new pressure on where and how owners choose to grow. In that environment, guessing on location, expansion or partnerships is simply too expensive. So, Rhonda, what key market and demographic data should veterinary practice owners focus on when evaluating expansion or acquisition opportunities? Well, location is important. I mean, we s- we hear it all the time in residential real estate, "Location, location, location." It's that much more important when you have a business and your business is dependent on having clients come in with their fluffy and, in my case, tipsy and toddy. That's why my chair's moving a little bit. so it, it's important, and I think that there are some components that are really very upfront important and a non-...

no deal can be made without them. for example, where you're acquiring a practice... I saw something like that. If you're acquiring a practice, you want to know as much as you can about that practice. We employ...... research analysts who actually talk to the doctor who's, making the acquisition. We ask them, "What are you looking for? What is your vision?" We unders- understand what their, what their goals are. and then we start research, and we find out what's going on with that practice, where it's located, what is the population, is the population sufficient to support that practice- Mm-hmm.... is the competition, what do they offer, do they offer complementary services, how many doctors are in those practices.

Not how many practices there are, but how many practitioners are in your area that you're gonna compete against. What do, what do they offer? What do ancillary services do they have? Do they offer boarding, grooming, retail? And that wasn't part of your original plan. in order to put yourself on even ground to compete with them, we can also look at an acquisition. We can pull information from a PIMs- PIM system and map the client locations. It's important to know where they are, how far they are from the practice, whether or not they are seen regularly in the practice, or are they emergency only or convenience.. all of those things form a story about the acquisition.

There's the asking price, which is not something that we determine, but it is something that is affected by many of these components that are part of the practice, so it's part of the sales price. Absolutely. Makes sense? Okay. sorry, Rhonda. So what's one piece of data owners that, you know... What's one piece of data that owners often misinterpret when looking at, you know, the market? population. Okay. So, you know, that is a number of how many people live within proximity of the practice. If you look at the competition and you acquire the practice, are you going to be able to retain the clients of the practice? Mm-hmm. So that's why we look at where they're located.

Okay. Are they 20 or 30 minutes away? It makes a big difference whether or not you're in a city, rural, or a suburban location, right? So, we adjust the numbers for that. - but to have solid data to make decisions on is really important. I think often there's a perception about a practice. Emotion gets involved in the decision-making. And we, we just give facts. We get the question often about AI. Do we use AI? We do not. Maybe someday there will be something out there that makes some sense, - Hmm.... but we use research analysts who are routinely collaborating with doctors, and building a story about the practice that they're considering acquiring. Hmm. If you're looking at expanding and building a new practice to add to your footprint, we can find areas that are advantageous. So, what does that mean?

It means there's a population to support an additional practice. There is, competition ratios that we display, household income, and that's where the demographic part comes in, is we then stack rank these areas. So, if a doctor says, "I want to be outside of Baton Rouge..." for whatever reason," we can do the research there, and we will stack rank the areas that we find for them- Hmm. so that they can look at where are there advantages, where are there disadvantages. And sometimes they may not pick the number one practice location that we find for them because it's emotional. They want to- Mm-hmm. ... be in an area around a specific area around Baton Rouge.

Right. And, you just mentioned er- early on in your answer to know how many practitioners are in that area as opposed to the number of practices. Why is that important? If I'm in a practice and I have three doctors- Mm-hmm. ... but a new practice is gonna open across the street, that's our acquisition target, and it's a single doctor. It's not the same practice. It's not apples to apples. You have more competition, and you have more doctor hours available. You have more appointments available. You have a schedule that is more flexible- Mm-hmm.... than a single doctor. So it's important to know that your competition... And when we look at competition, we're looking at number of doctors, ownership structure, days, hours, the ancillary services that are offered. So you get a full picture of that competitor, which is very different than a sole practice.

We do the same thing with specialists. So, specialists and general practice are different. Their competition ratios are very different. they're... they may practice in more than one location. They may be a specialist two days a week in one practice, two days a week in another, and that's what we research also. So if you're acquiring a practice, you know your competition has three doctors in that practice, which is...... equates to seven and a half days per week, and you're a sole practitioner, and the most that you can do is five, maybe five and a half days a week. So you understand- Okay. ... what your competition is. Absolutely. That makes sense. You know, the more do- doctor hours available makes a huge difference, right?

Mm-hmm. so Rhonda, how can veterinary practices use strategic partnerships to maximize growth without overextending resources? That's a good question. It's,... I always think partnerships are equal. Both of- Mm. ... you are working. Both of you are, looking to achieve the same goals. Both of you have benefits. if that is a strategic partnership, it could be a vendor that comes into your practice often, and you have a pain point, and you ask a vendor if they know of anybody who has a solution. It could be a doctor. Your associate definitely would be an es- a strategic partner. so could your office manager, your business manager. Those are s- I think I'm a partner to everybody. That's the way I see it.

Mm-hmm. I just want to partner with everybody. I wa- I hope that the other side of the table is getting the same benefit out of a partnership that I am. of course, I have targets for our- Mm-hmm.... business to grow. we're in multiple animal health and human health and, so there's a, lot of people out there. We wanna see what benefits us and what benefit we can provide our partners. It's a general answer, but this just, my own personal philosophy, and I find that people that find you to be fair and- Mm-hmm. ... contributing to their success as well will try to work with you much more diligently than a one-way. yeah. And what's one of the biggest misconceptions owners may have about these partnerships?

I think particularly in the healthcare industry- Mm-hmm. ... everybody thinks somebody else is looking for what they're gonna get out of a, a relationship, or somebody's going to be taken advantage of, and it doesn't need to be that way. I think that if you're very clear about what your goals are, what you're looking to accomplish, what you have to bring to the table to benefit your partner, you can avoid those kinds of misunderstandings because they're expensive. And- Mm-hmm. ... I think that, you know, the research that we do to uncover the conditions of these practices, the, the status, if you will, helps avoid- Mm-hmm. ... wasting money. Right, right. And, h- how do you actually avoid partnerships that drain more time and energy than they actually return?

You know, I think when you're forming a partnership, whether that's in business or a friendship, I think if you see signs early on that this is really not a partnership, strategic or otherwise, bail early. You know, decide that this is not the right partnership or it's not the right person, your personalities don't meet, they don't match, you don't see things, you don't value things the same things. Partners need to have s- a lot in common to be successful. So if your values aren't- don't match, if your drive and your willingness to strive to succeed don't match, you're not gonna be good partners. You're gonna be unequal partners, and that will just be more and more difficult as time goes by.

Right. So even if the data is promising, you would, well, maybe prioritize the values? Yeah. I think, you know, not everybody wants to work with a partner. And so, if your success is dependent on having a partner in order to make... to be successful in business, that's probably a bad decision. Mm-hmm. If you want a high-volume clinic with grooming and boarding, w- all of my dollars go to one facility. Mm-hmm. Grooming, boarding, veterinary, specialist care, everything happens there, and it works for me as a consumer. I'm not a business owner. I'm a consumer. but if that's what you want, your partner only wants to work four days a week and isn't interested in retail or grooming and boarding, you don't have a match.

You're always going to struggle to come to agreement on the next step. So the strategies don't match. Your business acumen don't match. Your drive doesn't match. so find somebody who does match for you. I think partnerships are challenging. They can also be very rewarding when they work. Absolutely. Right there, you mentioned something very interesting, which is if you want to grow your business, don't make that the only, you know, point to get a new partner. So, w- what is a good way of thinking about when to get a partner? Well, bef- before you outgrow your space and you can't function personally, bring in a partner. as you see your business starting to grow, as you see your...... the schedule booked out farther than you're comfortable with, those are indications that it's time to start talking to, to associates or other doctors to join you, before it's in a crisis.

Right. So the business is really demanding your attention, but you've outgrown it.... Yeah. And look at your appointments. how far are you booked out? How, how long do clients have to wait for an appointment? where are your patients located? Is it time to consider perhaps a satellite office to accommodate the number of clients that you have? these are data decisions. Mm-hmm. They're also interesting challenges. But they're, it's based on data. So if you get the right information, you can make sound decisions and then be emotional about what it looks like. Use your marketing and your, practice management consultant to help with that, because that's- Mm-hmm.

... not what I do anyway. and that's kind of the, the polish. Oh. That's great, because that just goes to show w- you might want to get a partner when you're feeling, like, overwhelmed or you feel like, "Oh, the business isn't growing, so let me get a partner in-" Mm-hmm. "... and they'll grow the business for me." But in reality, as you mentioned, like, the ideal way to go about it is when the business has grown to a point that y- y- you c- you know, you are the bottleneck. You became the bottleneck, right? Mm-hmm. And- Right. ... now, n- now you should be looking for a partner to expand that bottleneck, if I understood correctly. Exactly. Exactly.

Okay. So Rhonda, what are some of the common pitfalls in interpreting location and market data, and how can owners avoid making costly expansion mistakes? I think one of the, one of the barriers is when a doctor comes to us or an industry partner on behalf of their doctor, and they have some predetermined parameters around what they're looking for. we had a recent client that happened to be a, a periodontist. they had seven practices. They wanted to add additional locations. but they didn't want a new practice- Mm-hmm. ... less than three miles from them, not more than five. So picture a donut. Hm. That parameter prohibited us from being able to find the best areas for them. So by talking to them about why they set these parameters up, why they wanted us to follow that, we were able to change their mind and have them open their mind to considering, you know, everything around them so that we could research fully the competition. What happens if they have a predetermined parameter is that those areas that they identify aren't researched. They're not included- Hm.

... in our search criteria, they're not included in the data, and it's a mistake. So if you don't do a thorough job, if your end user doesn't allow you to, that can be a problem. So you'll make the wrong decision. So let us tell you what we think we can help you with, keeping your parameters in mind, and then provide you with full data for all of the areas around you. Right. And, I'm just thinking, so the practice owner might have thought, "Okay, this is, this area is, you know, I'm located here, so ev- you know, whatever area is within 15 minutes, you know, radius-" Mm-hmm. "... from my location would be the ideal place." But if the data doesn't back that up, as you mentioned.

Right. Right. Okay. And so let us do, let us do what we do well. You know- Mm-hmm. ... let us really uncover what the competition is like, the population, the household income. Let us t- show a true, thorough picture of the growth that you're looking to attain. It might not be exactly where you think it is. Mm-hmm. But we can- So-... show you where it is. If... Okay, fantastic. I love that. If, if we use that example I just mentioned, so, (clears throat) you know, I'm the lead doctor and practice owner, at a, veterinary practice, and I want to acquire a new place. So my current practice is within 15 minutes of driving distance. I want to acquire a new place. And, you know, like you said, there isn't, you know, it's not ideal for me to open up shop within this 15-minute range.

How would you address that? I would ask why you want an- Hm. ... an additional practice within 15 minutes. - Hm. ... we do hear that, and that's- Hm. ... often related to staff travel. So you want your staff to... You don't want them to have to drive 45 minutes if they cover a second practice. - Yeah. ... but it, that doesn't mean that the competition...If you open another practice, you're diluting the population. so it's a, it's a little bit of a challenge to talk somebody out of something that they've predetermined that they want. And they're the int- they're the business owner, so they can make any decision they want. But we like to give them options that are also comfortable.

Maybe it's in a slightly different direction. Maybe it's, slightly farther outside of that drive time. Mm. Okay. I think, with that being said- (laughs) ... we are coming almost to the end. We are not right there, so thank you so much, Ronda. You know, really appreciate your outlook on partnerships as well as this location strategy. Such an underrated topic, I feel like. (laughs) I know. I think the same thing. Funny. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ronda. And, right now, we are going to move on a small live Q and A section here, if any of our attendees have any questions, concerns, what's on your mind to ask our panelists, please feel free to either raise your hand, I might even, you know, just allow you to speak and, ask your question right away.

Or else, you can drop it in the chat. either way, it's great. So we'll have a few minutes here and, as we wait, we actually had a registration, a question that I felt, I would like to raise. I'm not necessarily sure who is the best person to answer this question. Perhaps it could be a combination. So, the question is, "Advice on transition process as older owner transitions to retirement and younger owner takes over." Who'd like to take a gander at this? I can try. I would say that, if you're older, the sooner you, begin the transition process, you're, the better off you'll be. Mm-hmm. Because anyone, unless you're selling to another veterinarian that's familiar with your practice, whoever buys your practice is gonna want you to stay- Mary, if we could get you a bit closer- Oh.

... to the microphone. Oh, sorry. They're gonna want you to stay- No worries. ... and work. So, the sooner you can do it, the more valuable your practice is. As you o- age, your va- y- your value is less. I know that sounds terrible. Your experience is more. They should v- you know, but they're gonna want you to stay. I have a doctor who waited until they were 85 years old, and she literally could not sell her practice. She was a solo in New York City in a great location. She sold that practice for $150,000 after 60 years of pr- however many, 50 years of practice. One of the saddest things I've ever seen. So if you're older and want to transition, start it sooner rather than later, from, from my perspective.

what's like a ballpark, timeline, you know, people would start to think about when they should, you know, want to retire and, sell out? I mean, ballpark, it's really very personal. Some people want to think, "I wanna be out by 50." Hm. Some people say, "Oh, I want to, by the time I'm 72." Right? So, you know, what is your financial position? What do you need in retirement? And, and like I said before, start planning at the beginning. So make sure, as hard as it is, start your 401K, put money aside, you know, and be in a position to retire when, when you want to. Right. And, I think, with that being said, we don't seem to have a lot of questions here today.

I feel like, that might mean we've done a great job at, you know, answering all of the questions they might have had, early on when, joining us. So, with that being said, I would really, truly apprec- like to take this moment to thank our wonderful panelists, Dr. Christine Staten, Lester D. Alvarez, and, Lea Paris, of course, Mary Montjoy, and then of course, Ronda Meyer. Thank you so much for being so open and filling this two-hour session with such value that our attendees, you know, will take away this evening. And of course, to our attendees, thank you so much for investing your time, with us here, this evening. As you exit, you will be given a small pop-up feedback survey. Please take a few minutes to, fill it up, or else we will follow up with an email that will have the feedback survey as well.

your input matters so much to us, and it'll help us make even more better events for you. And of course, the marketing strategy meeting, reminded by Lester D. Alvarez, I'll drop the link in the chat one last time. Make use of this resource, it'll, it'll be a great way for you to consider how you're going to grow in 2026. Completely complementary and completely non-obligatory, so you can take the roadmap, do it yourself or someone else, and, just have that with you. with that being said, of course, for the panelists, I'm going to send in a little email with regards to a small debrief. You can give your feedback on how the session went. It would be much appreciated. you don't need to do that right now. I know we are... (laughs) I know, I know, I know every, how strict we are on time right now.

So, with that being said, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. And, until next time, I'm your host. It has been a pleasure and a privilege. Dan Adisa signing off on behalf of the Veterinary Business Institute. Until next event, take care everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye.